Daf 83a
וְרַבִּי יְהוּדָה לְכַפֵּר לָא מַשְׁמַע לֵיהּ מַאי טַעְמָא לָאו מִשּׁוּם דְּמִיבַּעְיָא לֵיהּ לִגְזֵירָה שָׁוָה
רַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן אוֹמֵר הַזֶּבַח כָּשֵׁר וּנְסָכִים פְּסוּלִין הַנְּסָכִים כְּשֵׁירִים וְהַזֶּבַח פָּסוּל אֲפִילּוּ זֶה וָזֶה פְּסוּלִין הַזֶּבַח לֹא יֵרֵד וְהַנְּסָכִים יֵרְדוּ
אֵין בֵּין דִּבְרֵי רַבָּן גַּמְלִיאֵל לְדִבְרֵי רַבִּי יְהוֹשֻׁעַ אֶלָּא הַדָּם וְהַנְּסָכִים שֶׁרַבָּן גַּמְלִיאֵל אוֹמֵר לֹא יֵרְדוּ וְרַבִּי יְהוֹשֻׁעַ אוֹמֵר יֵרְדוּ
רַבָּן גַּמְלִיאֵל אוֹמֵר כָּל הָרָאוּי לַמִּזְבֵּחַ אִם עָלָה לֹא יֵרֵד שֶׁנֶּאֱמַר הִיא הָעֹלָה עַל מוֹקְדָה עַל הַמִּזְבֵּחַ מָה עוֹלָה שֶׁהִיא רְאוּיָה לַמִּזְבֵּחַ אִם עָלְתָה לֹא תֵּרֵד אַף כָּל דָּבָר שֶׁהוּא רָאוּי לַמִּזְבֵּחַ אִם עָלְתָה לֹא תֵּרֵד
רַבִּי יְהוֹשֻׁעַ אוֹמֵר כָּל הָרָאוּי לָאִישִּׁים אִם עָלָה לֹא יֵרֵד שֶׁנֶּאֱמַר הִיא הָעֹלָה עַל מוֹקְדָה מָה עוֹלָה שֶׁהִיא רְאוּיָה לָאִישִּׁים אִם עָלְתָה לֹא תֵּרֵד אַף כֹּל שֶׁהוּא רָאוּי לָאִישִּׁים אִם עָלָה לֹא יֵרֵד
מַתְנִי' הַמִּזְבֵּחַ מְקַדֵּשׁ [אֶת] הָרָאוּי לוֹ
הֲדַרַן עֲלָךְ כָּל הַזְּבָחִים שֶׁנִּתְעָרְבוּ
רַבִּי מֵאִיר אוֹמֵר אֵינוֹ צָרִיךְ הֲרֵי הוּא אוֹמֵר וְאֵת פַּר הַחַטָּאת וְאֵת שְׂעִיר הַחַטָּאת שֶׁאֵין תַּלְמוּד לוֹמַר לְכַפֵּר מָה תַּלְמוּד לוֹמַר לְכַפֵּר לִימֵּד עַל כָּל הַמִּתְכַּפְּרִים שֶׁהַשּׂוֹרְפָן מְטַמֵּא בְּגָדִים
לְפִי שֶׁלֹּא לָמַדְנוּ אֶלָּא לְפַר וְשָׂעִיר שֶׁל יוֹם הַכִּפּוּרִים שֶׁנִּשְׂרָפִין אַבֵּית הַדֶּשֶׁן מְטַמְּאִין בְּגָדִים שְׁאָר נִשְׂרָפִין מִנַּיִן תַּלְמוּד לוֹמַר חַטָּאת חַטָּאת דִּבְרֵי רַבִּי יְהוּדָה
מָה תַּלְמוּד לוֹמַר וְהַשֹּׂרֵף לְגוּפֵיהּ אִיצְטְרִיךְ אֶלָּא מָה תַּלְמוּד לוֹמַר חַטָּאת חַטָּאת
אָמַר רַבִּי יִרְמְיָה מִמַּשְׁמָע שֶׁנֶּאֱמַר וְאֵת פַּר הַחַטָּאת וְאֶת שְׂעִיר הַחַטָּאת אֲשֶׁר הוּבָא אֶת דָּמָם (אֶל אֹהֶל מוֹעֵד) לְכַפֵּר בַּקֹּדֶשׁ מָה תַּלְמוּד לוֹמַר וְהַשֹּׂרֵף
רַבִּי יְהוּדָה אוֹמֵר כּוּ' הָא מֵזִיד פָּסוּל בְּשֶׁכִּיפֵּר אוֹ בְּשֶׁלֹּא כִּיפֵּר
וּמָר סָבַר דָּנִין בְּהֵמָה מִבְּהֵמָה וְאֵין דָּנִין בְּהֵמָה מֵאָדָם
בְּמַאי קָמִיפַּלְגִי מָר סָבַר דָּנִין חוּץ מִחוּץ וְאֵין דָּנִין חוּץ מִבִּפְנִים
רַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן אוֹמֵר נֶאֱמַר כָּאן לְכַפֵּר וְנֶאֱמַר לְהַלָּן וְאֵת פַּר הַחַטָּאת וְאֶת שְׂעִיר הַחַטָּאת אֲשֶׁר הוּבָא אֶת דָּמָם לְכַפֵּר מָה לְהַלָּן בְּשֶׁכִּיפֵּר אַף כָּאן בְּשֶׁכִּיפֵּר
מָה לְהַלָּן בְּשֶׁלֹּא כִּיפֵּר אַף כָּאן בְּשֶׁלֹּא כִּיפֵּר
נִכְנַס לְכַפֵּר תַּנְיָא רַבִּי אֱלִיעֶזֶר אוֹמֵר נֶאֱמַר כָּאן לְכַפֵּר בַּקֹּדֶשׁ וְנֶאֱמַר לְהַלָּן וְכָל אָדָם לֹא יִהְיֶה בְּאֹהֶל מוֹעֵד בְּבֹאוֹ לְכַפֵּר בַּקֹּדֶשׁ
הָכָא וַדַּאי חַד מָקוֹם הוּא אוֹ [דִילְמָא] יְצִיאָה קָרֵינָא בֵּיהּ תֵּיקוּ
וְהוֹצִיאוֹ לַמִּזְבֵּחַ וְהִכְנִיסָן מַהוּ
carried it out to the altar, and then carried it within? Here it is certainly the same place; or perhaps, we designate this carrying [going] out? (1) The questions stand over. IF IT ENTERED WITHIN TO MAKE ATONEMENT. It was taught, R. Eliezer said: It is stated here, to make atonement in the holy place; (2) and it is stated elsewhere, And there shall be no man in the tent of appointment when he goeth in to make atonement in the holy place: (3) as there it means when he has not yet made atonement, (4) so here too it means when he has not yet made atonement. (5) R. Simeon said: It is stated here, ‘to make atonement’; and it is stated elsewhere, ‘And the bullock of the sin-offering, and the goat of the sin-offering, whose blood was brought in to make atonement’: (6) as there it means when he had [already] made atonement, (7) so here it means where he made atonement. (8) Wherein do they differ? — One master holds, You learn without from without, (9) but you do not learn without from within; (10) while the other master holds: You learn an animal from an animal, but you do not learn an animal from man. R. JUDAH SAID, etc. But if [the priest took it in] deliberately, it is disqualified; [when?] if he made atonement, or [even] if he did not make atonement? — Said R. Jeremiah, It was taught: (11) Since it is said, ‘And the bullock of the sin-offering, and the goat of the sinoffering, whose blood was brought in to make atonement in the holy place’; why is it [further] said, And he that burneth them [shall wash his clothes]? (12) (You ask, why is it further said, ‘And he that burneth them’? that is required for itself!) (13) — Rather [the question is] why is ‘sin-offering, repeated? Because we have only learnt that when the bullock and the he-goat of the Day of Atonement are burnt they defile garments; how do we know [the same of] other [sacrifices] which are burnt? — Because ‘sinoffering’ is repeated: (14) these are the words of R. Judah. R. Meir said: That [exegesis] is unnecessary. (15) Lo, it says, ‘And the bullock of the sin-offering and the he-goat of the sinoffering’: now, ‘to make atonement’ need not be stated; (16) why then is ‘to make atonement stated? It teaches that with all atoning sacrifices, (17) he that burns them [the sacrifices] defiles his garments. Whereas R. Judah does not understand ‘to make atonement’ in that way. What is the reason? Surely because he utilizes it for a gezerah shawah. (18) MISHNAH. THE ALTAR SANCTIFIES WHATEVER IS ELIGIBLE FOR IT. (19) R. JOSHUA SAID: WHATEVER IS ELIGIBLE FOR THE ALTAR FIRE DOES NOT DESCEND [THENCE] ONCE IT ASCENDED, BECAUSE IT IS SAID, THAT IS THE BURNT-OFFERING UPON ITS FIREWOOD: (20) AS THE BURNTOFFERING, WHICH IS ELIGIBLE FOR THE ALTAR FIRE, DOES NOT DESCEND ONCE IT ASCENDED, SO WHATEVER IS ELIGIBLE FOR THE ALTAR FIRE DOES NOT DESCEND ONCE IT ASCENDED. R. GAMALIEL SAID: WHATEVER IS ELIGIBLE FOR THE ALTAR DOES NOT DESCEND ONCE IT ASCENDED, BECAUSE IT IS SAID: THAT IS THE BURNT-OFFERING UPON ITS FIREWOOD UPON THE ALTAR: AS THE BURNT-OFFERING, WHICH IS ELIGIBLE FOR THE ALTAR, DOES NOT DESCEND ONCE IT ASCENDED, SO WHATEVER IS ELIGIBLE FOR THE ALTAR DOES NOT DESCEND ONCE IT ASCENDED. R. GAMALIEL AND R. JOSHUA DIFFER ONLY IN RESPECT OF THE BLOOD AND LIBATIONS, R. GAMALIEL MAINTAINING THAT THEY MUST NOT DESCEND, WHILE R. JOSHUA MAINTAINS THAT THEY MUST DESCEND. (21) R. SIMEON SAID: IF THE SACRIFICE IS FIT WHILE THE LIBATIONS [WHICH ACCOMPANIED IT] ARE UNFIT; OR IF THE LIBATIONS ARE FIT WHILE THE SACRIFICE IS UNFIT; OR EVEN IF BOTH ARE UNFIT, — THE SACRIFICE MUST NOT DESCEND, WHILE THE LIBATIONS DO DESCEND. (22)
(1). ↑ V. Lev. XVI, 18 f: And he shall go out unto the altar that is before the Lord, and make atonement for it; and shall take of the blood of the bullock, and of the blood of the goat, and put it upon the horns of the altar round about. And he shall sprinkle of the blood upon it with his finger seven times. According to the Talmud this refers to the golden altar which was in the same portion as the veil. Hence ‘and he shall go out’ can only mean that he passes beyond the whole altar, i.e., he must not stand on the inner side of the altar, between it and the veil, but on the outer side, between it and the door. In the present instance he carried the blood back on the inner side of the altar; and the question is: as it is in the same portion as the veil, perhaps it does not disqualify it; or do we say that since Scripture designates going to the outer side of the altar ‘going out’ the inner side is ipso facto a separate place and disqualifies it?
(2). ↑ Lev. VI, 23.
(3). ↑ Ibid. XVI, 17.
(4). ↑ No man must be there when he is about to make atonement.
(5). ↑ The flesh is disqualified if the blood is taken into the Hekal to make atonement, even if atonement was not made, i.e., the blood was not sprinkled there.
(6). ↑ Lev. XVI, 27.
(7). ↑ That is evident from the whole passage.
(8). ↑ Only then is the sacrifice disqualified.
(9). ↑ Viz., the law about the bullock whose blood must be sprinkled without from the man who is bidden to stay without.
(10). ↑ From the Day of Atonement sacrifice whose blood is rightly brought within.
(11). ↑ Emended text (Sh. M.).
(12). ↑ Ibid. 28.
(13). ↑ To teach that his garments are defiled.
(14). ↑ The second one being superfluous, it extends the law to all sin-offerings which are burnt.
(15). ↑ It is implied in the Biblical text itself.
(16). ↑ We already know from the context that that was its purpose.
(17). ↑ I.e., all those for whom atonement is made.
(18). ↑ Sc. as R. Simeon supra. Accordingly, the sacrifice is disqualified only if he did make atonement.
(19). ↑ I.e., anything which was appointed for the altar, even if it subsequently became unfit, is nevertheless sanctified by the altar in the sense that if laid upon it, it must not be removed.
(20). ↑ Lev. VI, 2.
(21). ↑ R. Joshua and R. Gamaliel disagree as to the meaning of ‘WHATEVER IS ELIGIBLE FOR IT’. R. Joshua holds that it means whatever is eligible for the altar fire, i.e., to be burnt on the altar, such as the limbs of a burnt-offering. Blood and libations, however, which are not meant for burning on the altar at all, must be taken down even laid on it. R. Gamaliel maintains that ELIGIBLE means in any capacity, and so if these ascended, they do not descend.
(22). ↑ R. Simeon agrees with R. Joshua where the libations accompany a sacrifice, and with R. Gamaliel where they come by themselves. His view is discussed below.
(1). ↑ V. Lev. XVI, 18 f: And he shall go out unto the altar that is before the Lord, and make atonement for it; and shall take of the blood of the bullock, and of the blood of the goat, and put it upon the horns of the altar round about. And he shall sprinkle of the blood upon it with his finger seven times. According to the Talmud this refers to the golden altar which was in the same portion as the veil. Hence ‘and he shall go out’ can only mean that he passes beyond the whole altar, i.e., he must not stand on the inner side of the altar, between it and the veil, but on the outer side, between it and the door. In the present instance he carried the blood back on the inner side of the altar; and the question is: as it is in the same portion as the veil, perhaps it does not disqualify it; or do we say that since Scripture designates going to the outer side of the altar ‘going out’ the inner side is ipso facto a separate place and disqualifies it?
(2). ↑ Lev. VI, 23.
(3). ↑ Ibid. XVI, 17.
(4). ↑ No man must be there when he is about to make atonement.
(5). ↑ The flesh is disqualified if the blood is taken into the Hekal to make atonement, even if atonement was not made, i.e., the blood was not sprinkled there.
(6). ↑ Lev. XVI, 27.
(7). ↑ That is evident from the whole passage.
(8). ↑ Only then is the sacrifice disqualified.
(9). ↑ Viz., the law about the bullock whose blood must be sprinkled without from the man who is bidden to stay without.
(10). ↑ From the Day of Atonement sacrifice whose blood is rightly brought within.
(11). ↑ Emended text (Sh. M.).
(12). ↑ Ibid. 28.
(13). ↑ To teach that his garments are defiled.
(14). ↑ The second one being superfluous, it extends the law to all sin-offerings which are burnt.
(15). ↑ It is implied in the Biblical text itself.
(16). ↑ We already know from the context that that was its purpose.
(17). ↑ I.e., all those for whom atonement is made.
(18). ↑ Sc. as R. Simeon supra. Accordingly, the sacrifice is disqualified only if he did make atonement.
(19). ↑ I.e., anything which was appointed for the altar, even if it subsequently became unfit, is nevertheless sanctified by the altar in the sense that if laid upon it, it must not be removed.
(20). ↑ Lev. VI, 2.
(21). ↑ R. Joshua and R. Gamaliel disagree as to the meaning of ‘WHATEVER IS ELIGIBLE FOR IT’. R. Joshua holds that it means whatever is eligible for the altar fire, i.e., to be burnt on the altar, such as the limbs of a burnt-offering. Blood and libations, however, which are not meant for burning on the altar at all, must be taken down even laid on it. R. Gamaliel maintains that ELIGIBLE means in any capacity, and so if these ascended, they do not descend.
(22). ↑ R. Simeon agrees with R. Joshua where the libations accompany a sacrifice, and with R. Gamaliel where they come by themselves. His view is discussed below.
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